Chat Export - Anton Kropotkin
27 August 2019
A
14:04
Anton
Hey Dennis! I have talked to my dad. He was not happy, and told me that we need to optimise budget for project as the last couple of months he didn’t see any good moves and for him it looks like we are on the same place. He told me that we need to stop working, for now with you, he told me is nothing against you and he knows that you are professional but budget for your place is high which he can’t keep for now, and in future we always can work together when we optimise everything. I am really sorry for you to hear that, as i really respect you as professional.
T
14:14
TheFactRemains
Ok
14:15
Would it be better to go back to the original 1500?
14:15
Seems like it would be the best idea
14:15
I could do 10 hours a week or so
A
14:15
Anton
Not sure my father told me now its not easy moments for him
14:15
This months
14:16
So he wanted to optimize
14:16
I will ask him
T
14:16
TheFactRemains
Ok
14:16
We still have a month left I guess?
A
14:16
Anton
Yes!
T
14:17
TheFactRemains
Ok. If you want, I can also help you find someone new. I want to help you.
14:17
Just let me know what you think is best
A
14:18
Anton
I mean we are good with you but for now he want to close the position for one-two months
14:18
this what he told me
14:18
and i have to take all your work on me..
T
14:27
TheFactRemains
Ok
14:27
So will I get paid again in September? Just to understand.
A
14:28
Anton
He told me that we will work until September
T
14:29
TheFactRemains
So 5th and 25th of September will still get paid. Ok. That's good.
A
14:30
Anton
I think you didnt get me right, He told me until the end of this month we work
T
14:30
TheFactRemains
The contract has 30 days termination. So I'm confused
A
14:31
Anton
Can you provide me the contract
14:31
The contract that i have made for you
T
14:31
TheFactRemains
Yes. One sec
A
14:31
Anton
Was on your request for your documents
14:31
Not for our work
14:31
We never had contract
14:32
Saying to you how my dad said
14:32
He is out of money now
14:32
And was thinking to close
14:32
The project
14:32
That how it is
14:32
I am trying to convice him
14:32
But he is thinking about it
T
14:32
TheFactRemains
[Contract Attached]
A
14:34
Anton
Yes Dennis, we made it for you for your documents
14:34
I dont know what to say now
14:34
My dad told me all this things
14:34
I am lost also
14:35
As it was my one chance
14:37
And we never had real contract Dennis you know that
T
14:37
TheFactRemains
So what's the point of a contract if not a written agreement?
14:37
I take on risk and worked for very little
A
14:37
Anton
Not for little at all Dennis
T
14:38
TheFactRemains
Turned down other opportunities because I believed we had an agreement
14:38
At first yes
14:38
1500
14:38
For several months
14:38
I made decisions based on a written agreement
A
14:38
Anton
We never had real working agreement - you asked me to make some papers for your documents
14:38
we made them
14:38
check the chat please
14:39
I dont know what to say here as my father will stop sending me money
T
14:39
TheFactRemains
So you're saying the contract wasn't real
A
14:39
Anton
We made it for your documents Dennis
14:39
I crearly remember that
T
14:39
TheFactRemains
And that does not make it less real
14:40
I hope you succeed Anton, but you really need to be careful if you try to expand in the US
14:40
This will destroy a company there
A
14:41
Anton
what you mean?
T
14:41
TheFactRemains
A contract exists for a reason
14:42
And it can't be disregarded like this
A
14:42
Anton
Dennis comon we made it for your reason for your documents
14:42
what i can do now
14:42
we dont have budget
T
14:42
TheFactRemains
Not only that, the honor and aren't agreement is important
A
14:42
Anton
honor is
14:42
but didnt you think about another thing
T
14:42
TheFactRemains
If you don't pay Amazon according to your agreement
A
14:43
Anton
we didnt have real agreemnet common dennis
T
14:43
TheFactRemains
You get shut down fast. And banned
A
14:43
Anton
dont start with this
T
14:43
TheFactRemains
There's no such thing as not a real agreement
14:43
It's as real as it gets
14:44
Signed and everything
A
14:44
Anton
U asked me for your docuemnt
14:44
and we created some papers
14:44
for you
T
14:44
TheFactRemains
I have people to provide for
14:45
I take risks with their livlihood
14:45
Right?
14:45
So a responsible person protects himself
A
14:45
Anton
I take a risk for all this project
14:45
and is not doing well
T
14:45
TheFactRemains
How can I do that unless I have a contract?
A
14:45
Anton
loosing 200k
T
14:45
TheFactRemains
And there are many many reasons for that
A
14:45
Anton
you started project without contract for long time
14:45
and you were good with it
T
14:46
TheFactRemains
And then I wasn't
14:46
So I signed a contract
14:46
And so did you
14:46
And now you won't honor it
A
14:46
Anton
because you told me without it you will not have documents
T
14:46
TheFactRemains
And because I needed protection
14:46
To turn down another job
A
14:46
Anton
Dennis what i can do now?
T
14:46
TheFactRemains
I needed to know it was safe financially to stay with JoBBoo
A
14:47
Anton
my dad clearly told me we dont have money
T
14:47
TheFactRemains
And he didn't know a month ago?
A
14:47
Anton
No
14:47
That why
14:47
I am depresseed
14:47
and i dont know a solution from that now
14 September 2019
A
09:42
Anton
Hey Dennis! He told me for now he doesn't have opportunity...
T
10:25
TheFactRemains
Ok. And the money you owe me for 30 days?
10:25
Did he say anything about that?
A
10:26
Anton
He said he doesnt have opportunity that why he stoped working with you, i dont know what more to say
T
10:26
TheFactRemains
Ok Anton. I have to go to a lawyer then. I really wish I didn't have to.
10:27
This is not how business is done and even without the contract is horribly dishonorable at the very least.
A
10:41
Anton
He told me why he decided this, long time he was thinking but he didnt see that u could work good and that why he wanted you to move and you decided not to, which means you didnt want to take responsabilities on you. You know what happens in Russia if a person doesnt come to work? they take money out from the salary and i was always quite when you dont come or u have to do something, in Russia the buisness works like that, its differwnt mentality.
Okay you can go to lawyer, it will take over a year, i also have a lawyer
10:41
And checked this papers
10:42
So what i mean here, he expected more.. much more
10:42
For this money
10:42
In russian no one has this salary
T
10:43
TheFactRemains
First, if he thought this, he needed to tell me 30 days in advance
10:43
He would expect that of me if I terminated the agreement
10:43
That's how it works
10:44
Second, he killed the project and any efforts I had were sidestepped by him
10:44
He secretly changed directions without even telling me
10:45
If he hired me, he needed to trust. And you know what. If he thinks he can do a better job than me, that's completely fine. Then take over and terminate the agreement honorably
A
10:45
Anton
He dowsnt know that this papers even exist
10:46
He never want to make contract
T
10:46
TheFactRemains
They do exist
10:46
And even without them, he knows what he did
A
10:46
Anton
Only if the project is working
10:46
Yes he told me it was late
10:46
But he lost a lot
T
10:46
TheFactRemains
And he knows he wouldn't want his employee to leave without notice
A
10:46
Anton
And its crisis
10:46
I have nothing more
10:46
Totell
10:46
And
10:46
All of this
10:46
That the project failed or something
T
10:47
TheFactRemains
The project under me failed
A
10:47
Anton
All the actions came from Vitaly
10:47
YES
T
10:47
TheFactRemains
Because I had no control
10:47
That's my point
10:47
He nor Vitaly gave me control
10:47
Which is fine Anton
10:48
He gets to decide that
10:48
But he doesn't get to sever a business agreement without notice
A
10:48
Anton
In reply to this message
U know why?
T
10:48
TheFactRemains
It's not right and your know it
A
10:48
Anton
If u would move
10:48
It would be different
T
10:48
TheFactRemains
Lol
A
10:48
Anton
That why i tried to convice u
T
10:48
TheFactRemains
You hired me knowing I couldn't move
10:48
And that's not why the project under me failed
10:48
Vitaly and your dad are why
10:49
They think they know better than me and Ivo
10:49
And that's really funny if you ask me
10:49
They'll never succeed that way
10:49
And I can see why they wouldn't want to pay if they think they know better
10:50
But they hired me and decided after my time and effort that it's completely fine to fuck me over
10:56
Are you really saying your dad thinks I deserve to be financially punished?
10:56
He's completely ok taking a month of pay from me without notice. You must see how fucked up this is Anton.
A
11:52
Anton
I told u what he told me, he is stricked and doesnt listen when i tell him u worked good, because there is also Vitaly who speakes daily with my dar
T
11:52
TheFactRemains
And even if I worked bad, which I didn't, this shit isn't ok. You paid Henrique what you owed him and you think he worked bad, right?
11:53
Your dad and Vitaly both interfered and think they now how to build a product
11:53
And then blamed me when it didn't work
11:53
Good luck Anton
A
12:03
Anton
In reply to this message
I didnt
T
12:03
TheFactRemains
He told me you did
A
12:04
Anton
What?
T
12:04
TheFactRemains
and it's kind of crazy that this is your defense. that you think this is always ok
A
12:04
Anton
No he was working till 15 and i paid till 15
12:04
No
12:04
But i am the one here who never got anything
12:04
From this project
12:04
Even some 500 euro
12:05
And was doing a lot of work
12:05
Just spent a year
12:05
For nothing
T
12:05
TheFactRemains
so anton, you do understand risk and reward
12:05
you get all the upside from our work and you know it
12:05
only if JB succeeded
12:05
i get it. that's your risk and your reward
12:06
and your decision
12:06
if you told me I wouldn't be paid, but I would get 50% of JB ownership, I would have done it too
12:06
but I would have fired vitaly before we started
12:06
and made sure your dad stayed out of everything
12:07
but then again, contracts mean nothing to you, so I guess I'm glad that did not happen
A
12:24
Anton
You see here dont have control over investor and vitaly
12:24
He knew him long time
12:25
That why he started working
T
12:25
TheFactRemains
My point is you have upside. Not a paycheck.

And if my only upside was success, I would've made sure the experts were in charge. Not the egos.
12:25
But a much bigger reward if you succeed
12:27
And if it wasn't working out, I understand. But cutting off my only source of income without notice. Hugely fucked up.
12:27
Even if you had said, I need you to move or you can't work with JoBBoo anymore. That would be notice. I'd tell you I can't and we'd agree on an end date.
12:29
I guess when the next person gets fired the same will happen? Do you think people will be ok with this?
A
12:32
Anton
Dennis what you wanna here, i told u i was all the time up for you and my father doesnt care with my decision, my hands are crossed. In Russian countries when buisness doesnt go they can close it same day
T
12:32
TheFactRemains
We aren't in Russia
12:33
He will never succeed unless he moves the business to Russia
12:33
Employees don't work that way here or anywhere else
12:34
If you want a Spanish or Western business, you need honor.
12:34
If that's not required in Russia, I'm surprised, but I guess you know more than me about that.
12:35
Most of the Russians I've worked with don't work this way. But I guess that's why they succeeded in my world.